patientwife
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 47
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:51 pm Post subject: ESRD Network 14 (Texas)
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Re NW 14's reference to NW11/CMS partnership pertaining to survey on dumpings/dismissals, NW 11's Annual Report 2002 includes the following paragraph in June 2003 letter from President to Colleagues:<
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>"New Information is available from Involuntary Patient Discharge Survey<
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>Network 11 coordinated a national project with twelve ESRD Networks participating. Aggregate results show that there were 458 involuntary discharges, a rate of 0.2%. About 50% of patients discharged were given a 30-day notice, were discharged due to noncompliance, and were able to be placed in another dialysis facility. Network 11's results showed that there were 61 discharges, a rate of 0.35% (a rate second highest of participating Networks). Network 11's results were similar to the aggregate results except that 72% of patients were given a 30-day notice. Network 11 plans to analyze further and specifically analyze patients and policies related to discharge for noncompliance."<
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>Arlene, I have not reviewed the complete annual report/tables to see if there are additional data, but several questions come to mind from that provided in the President's letter:<
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>1. What is survey's definition of "discharge"? Do data include events other than those when pts have been informed that they can no longer dialyze at current unit -- i.e., when pts have been "dumped", as we know it?<
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>2. What is survey's definition of "noncompliance"?<
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>3. Over what time span did the 458 involuntary discharges occur?<
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>4. Why would only 50% of "discharges" have been given 30-day notice? (What in particular happened in the remaining 50% cases -- we must know, first, what a "discharge" is.)<
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>5. In addition to statistical data, will the survey include patients' perspectives related to "dumpings"?<
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>Not that it will change anything about DEO's plans for public awareness and demonstrations, but can you find out when the final report on the survey will be available to the public?<
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>Hope this helps. <
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patient
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 137
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:44 pm Post subject: issue #1 definition of "dump"
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Patientwife; you need to really find out exactly what the corporations are referring to as a dumped patient. I have fell victim of a dump with 30 day notice with an administrator back in 1999 due to a clinic door falling apart when I went home. This was an act of violence falling under the "zero tolerance" policy set by an administrator that was known to not have any people skills whatsoever. According to new administrator with the global corporation I transferred before I was dumped. And old administrator was transferred to accounting department. What I am trying to say in all of this, is there are patients that were classified by the networks and corporations as transferred when in reality they were dumped.
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patientwife
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 47
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:40 am Post subject: Definition of "Involuntary Discharge"
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Patient, that is precisely my ? What is considered an "involuntary discharge". Could include cases such as that to which you referred. Or, who knows, could include pts who died. We won't know until somebody can get more info on the data. (Sure hope it doesn't take an Act of Congress to get the data.)<
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>Suggest you e-mail Arlene re your case. See her post yesterday.
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patient
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 137
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:23 am Post subject: 1999 discharge
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patientwife; Thanks but Arlene already has info from years ago letters. I just thought that you needed to know that there are many accounts where a patient was led to discharge and issued contracts for trivial things then the clinics claim "you transferred, we did not discharge you". But they tell a patient you are being discharged and I am notifing your doctor and the ESRD network, only to be covered up as a transfer. I can only imagine that there are quite a few situations that are covered under that first bullet point issue. Just an fyi that there maybe numerous "transfers". Have a good a.m.
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patientwife
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 47
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:53 am Post subject: Definition of "Involuntary Discharge"
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You're absolutely right. Thanks.
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Update
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Posts: 8
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:26 am Post subject: Patient from Texarkana
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I received a call this morning from our patient in Texarana. She was able to dialize in Louisiana yesterday and today so she can travel out of state safely, stay with a family member until this situation is resolved.<
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>FMC opened their doors yesterday and will dialize her today so she can board the plane and safely make it to her designation. This prevented her from another emergency room visit that she has to be near death in order to dialize. Personally want to thank FMC for taking the high road and considering a patients life.<
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>We will now go to the legal arena, as the patients safety was the most important at the moment. She is safe and we will now look into legal action. <
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>One case has been filed in Alameda California for another dismissal, his crime it appears was trying to organize the patients with the state supporting unsafe conditions. Once again the power was not tilted towards any fairness and the patient paid the ultimate price. We are trying to place him now.Sometimes a patient is written up so they look as if they are Hanibal Lector and the black balling continues down the line, the patient pays the price one more time. NO trial, just dumped. We have several attorneys that are outraged at this violation of rights. Remember this is challenged and in the majority of times the Federal supersedes State. These are good season lawyers, some involved in the Agent Orange case. We are filing and we have someone to look into this situation. It is a huge think tank on your behalf as being patients.<
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>I personally want the physicians and the staff that were involved in this,to be accountable in a public forum.The marches are still on, but both groups are organizing this. You can sue personally. If you abuse and are a party of it, we will challenge the licenses of those involved. Count on it!<
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>This we all need to be aware of and once again JOURNAL and document. You now have a right to review and change what you dont like in your records, exercise this opportunity.<
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>Arlene
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Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:40 am Post subject: Seems to me
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that it's blackmail, and that's illegal! Threatening to dump someone because they exercise their pts. right to speak out against inadequacies is using one's very life to blackmail them. It doesn't get any lower than that! Kudos to FMC for showing some human decency towards this pts. and others. I'm impressed! Lin.
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FYI
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 72
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:13 am Post subject: Lack of rights in the dialysis units
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It is the
lowest that one can do to another human being. When does ones rights under the Constitution become void. This could be any of you. You are owned by the doctors. THey can dismiss you with no cause. This has to be challenged.<
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>Rest assured that Collom & Carney Clinic Association had plenty of time to do what is right, they have refused to do it. They did it cause they can that is a direct quote from Mr. Tom Simmons the CEO Clinic. They took this stand, we will do what we need to do. They even threatened me, still am waiting. They appear to chose a vunerable patient whoms life was and is in the balance.<
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>We have given the patient a lawyer of her choosing and we have helped with another case that is now filed in Federal Court. These attorneys are aware of the marriages in State Courts and file Federal. What is legal with the State is not always the Law of the Land. All this clinic had to do was take her back and they today have refused with the TEXAS ESRD NETWORK supporting this move. It appears that this will generate much publicity and a march will come down. They will be known publically for their actions. They were aware of this and felt we were BS-ing, guess they missed the high road.All that matters to us is that our patient is taken care of.<
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>There will be meetings with Rev Sharptons group in La and Texas next week. As they put it, talking is over. The case will go to the attorney of the patients choice,as they have chosen to go this route. So we will oblige them<
>We have piles of paper work on this clinic. I also want to go on record on making two staff members and physician accountable to thier boards. This is what I personally am looking into. THe protection of a patient is the staff, and they should do what they can to protect those that they see an injustice to. To have an RN tell the patient that she will see that nothing will happen to her and continue leading her to the slaughter is morally wrong in my opinion. They have until Friday to call this off and take the patient back....if not in good conscience we proceed.<
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>Arlene<
> Edited by: realdialysisethics at: 8/27/03 5:54 pm<
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Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:45 am Post subject: It could happen anywhere and
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at any time! I feel vulnerable enough just sitting in the dialysis chair in a pretty good unit. I can't imagine the horror another pt. feels being told a life saving tx. will be denied them. Just once I wish staff and others who do such things would fall asleep and have a nightmare, in which they were suddenly the pt. and were being "dumped" like yesterdays garbage. <
>Arlene, You do so much for others; just don't forget to do something nice for yourself once in awhile. I wouldn't want to see you burn out! If I were closer I would hurry some Cinnamon buns over; those in the know, know that they have magical powers that soothe the soul. Lin.
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THANKS
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject: oH DEAR...CINNAMON BUNS!
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You must be talking with others on this board...smile. I am doing just fine,but we all are extremely busy.<
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>I have been taking time off when I can, putting the majority of my efforts in to organizing the marches with others and educating press and lawyers. This is where my priority lies at this time.<
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>We are getting closer and more patients are coming to the site and emailing and calling concerns that they have. We wisk them off to the journalist and it just justifies that changes need to happen quickly. NOt just more research studies to buy time. It is election year and the government needs to stand up to the plate and protect their citizens from the dumpings, lack of rights and industry policing. How much information does one need to see that this current system is not working? It needs to be cleaned up and not throwing more money with no Standards of Care to the industry. It seems this is just another way to give them money, only if 50 cents is given...only 5 cents will go towards patients. It is an industry that has put money (greed)over ethics. Throwing more coins into the street does not help the patients one bit.<
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>We have had 3 Federal Investigations and in 3 years nothing is changed,even with the findings of the investigations,now we want to do research? I am really afraid that this is only to buy more time for the elections to happen. If we dont continue on the path of marches and industry accountability, no patient will be safe. After elections, count on nothing happening for another 4 years. It is now or never. I feel strongly that the patients WILL win this...it would be much easier if the government would roll up their sleeves and put the bandages back in the box. Time to clean up and protect those that are vunerable. And yes they can tell the physicians what they can do. Dumping patients with no where to go NEEDS to stop.It is nothing short of murder.<
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>Yes sometimes I get tired, but the plate will soon be empty, and the expose and law suits ,marches will continue on. But you never quit when you see the finish line. We are one fantastic group of people.We are making a difference and we are getting more patients who are coming aboard in groves, we are making a difference.<
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>Arlene
