DialysisEthics2_Forum
Other => Historical Posts => Topic started by: admin on September 22, 2009, 06:37:23 PM
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Guest
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: Re: money hungry corporate types
[quote:13da756404="a guest"][quote:13da756404="Anonymous"]
then you don't get the service.
[/quote:13da756404]
And you should think about what you are denying - a "life-saving treatment" - because somebody was rude?[/quote:13da756404]
We're not talking merely rude...I never said that. I am referring to incessant verbal abuse which has not ceased after the disciplinary chain has been followed. I'm talking about intimidation where employees are afraid of the patient. I'm talking about the violence or the threat of violence. Do you think this stuff does not occur? Why would the dialysis facility not be a microcosm of society where violence is rampant?
I have thought....and lived....what I am saying. I don't live in a liberal dream world where there are no bad people...only bad deeds. Sound familiar to you??
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Colorado DE rep
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:21 am Post subject:
I just wanted to mention a State Senator has also been made aware of this situation.
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Guest
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:01 am Post subject:
[quote:17881a15cd="Colorado DE rep"]I just wanted to mention a State Senator has also been made aware of this situation.[/quote:17881a15cd]
I called Bush at the White House and he's supposed to get back to me regarding this outrage of a nasty, abusive person being thrown out of a private facility with a waiting list.
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been there too...
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:03 am Post subject:
In the effort of fairness, do you honestly think "guest" is being unreasonable in expecting that a patient should be allowed to behave badly, speak disrepectfully, threaten staff and generally be downright frightening to caregivers and NOT be accountable for their actions , no matter what their diagnosis may be but in this case happens to be ESRD? First off, dismissals ARE few and far between.
Secondly, where in God's name did this person get that stat that 91% of African Amercans are denied treatment in chronic centers and therefore forced to dialyze in a hospital because noone will take them?
When I hear such a statistic quoted he loses all credibility with me because that is just not true. Absoutely untrue. And as for a healthcare provider deliberately infiltrating his arm, COME ON!
Accountibility is taking responsilbility for one's actions. The guy admits he has been nasty. He is now reaping what he sowed.
Also, please dont's cite statistics from 1994 - they are antiquated. Dialysis outcomes have come a long way in the past 5 -6 years. They have vastly improved with DOQI & KDOQI. Patients die from comorbid conditions - not the dialysis procedure.
Can't you DE people even ADMIT that there are two sides to every story?
Instead of whining, focus on educating pre ESRD patients and continuing to educate those on dialysis to take care of themselves.
Those patients unwilling to exhibit common coutesy and respect that come into a hospital to dialyze are taking away precious beds and valuable resources from patients that probably must wait in the ER until he leaves so they can get a bed. Is that acceptable to you DE members?
Yikes - same old stuff on this board. Poor me syndrome. But I guess everyone needs a place to vent. Ever hear of the sheep that cried wolf? Eventually the poor sheep met his demise..
Ooops, I know - I am a mean heartless healthcare provider who should "get out of the business". Sorry, I stay for the 98% that follow their diet, try to work, and give a good goddarn about themselves. As for the 2% that choose the opposite save the money and treat someone who cares more about themselves and can live with others in a cooperative Christian spirit.
Way to go, Guest!
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Guest
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:25 am Post subject:
[quote:a2dd4d172f="been there too..."]In the effort of fairness, do you honestly think "guest" is being unreasonable in expecting that a patient should be allowed to behave badly, speak disrepectfully, threaten staff and generally be downright frightening to caregivers and NOT be accountable for their actions , no matter what their diagnosis may be but in this case happens to be ESRD? First off, dismissals ARE few and far between.
Secondly, where in God's name did this person get that stat that 91% of African Amercans are denied treatment in chronic centers and therefore forced to dialyze in a hospital because noone will take them?
When I hear such a statistic quoted he loses all credibility with me because that is just not true. Absoutely untrue. And as for a healthcare provider deliberately infiltrating his arm, COME ON!
Accountibility is taking responsilbility for one's actions. The guy admits he has been nasty. He is now reaping what he sowed.
Also, please dont's cite statistics from 1994 - they are antiquated. Dialysis outcomes have come a long way in the past 5 -6 years. They have vastly improved with DOQI & KDOQI. Patients die from comorbid conditions - not the dialysis procedure.
Can't you DE people even ADMIT that there are two sides to every story?
Instead of whining, focus on educating pre ESRD patients and continuing to educate those on dialysis to take care of themselves.
Those patients unwilling to exhibit common coutesy and respect that come into a hospital to dialyze are taking away precious beds and valuable resources from patients that probably must wait in the ER until he leaves so they can get a bed. Is that acceptable to you DE members?
Yikes - same old stuff on this board. Poor me syndrome. But I guess everyone needs a place to vent. Ever hear of the sheep that cried wolf? Eventually the poor sheep met his demise..
Ooops, I know - I am a mean heartless healthcare provider who should "get out of the business". Sorry, I stay for the 98% that follow their diet, try to work, and give a good goddarn about themselves. As for the 2% that choose the opposite save the money and treat someone who cares more about themselves and can live with others in a cooperative Christian spirit.
Way to go, Guest![/quote:a2dd4d172f]
Of course, all of your points are correct. Unfortunately, nobody here wants to hear ration or reason. This is an "activist" site. One surety about "activists". Never confuse their mission with facts or any conjecture which muddies their waters. Everyone claims to want a safe environment for both patient and staff....so long as no patient gets their feelings hurt or their privileges revoked.
The battle cry towards those of us who want a safe environment for all is the predictable and erroneous chant "well...they just need to find a new line of work". How dare anyone want to be safe from verbal and physical abuse in their place of employment.
What's is disappointing is that this sentiment seems prevalent right across the board in this organization. I can disregard the people who are so angry about their illness that they hate any and all things dialysis. Reasonable people should know better.
Never expect fairness from the chief activist herself. She is on record as saying, "fairness doesn't matter".
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:54 am Post subject:
[quote:f57bf096ee="Anonymous"]
OK plugger, what do you do with this guy? Do you sit him down and try to reason with him? I mean........what is the plugger solution for helping those who refuse to help themselves?[/quote:f57bf096ee]
I couldn't of course give you the details, but I do recall an article that was posted here not too long ago about a fellow from Scotland on dialysis who truly did sound like the worst of the worst - and somehow he was still receiving dialysis; so apparently there are ways of dealing with those sorts. You might say it is too expensive, however another poster with your mindset stated those who have to be thrown out of the clinic are few, so overall it couldn't be too expensive.
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:07 am Post subject:
[quote:c04d8280f5="been there too..."]
Also, please dont's cite statistics from 1994 - they
are antiquated. Dialysis outcomes have come a long way in the past 5 -6 years. [/quote:c04d8280f5]
Outcomes have gotten better? Have they really now? The bottom line for me is the mortality rate, from the renal data system ( http://www.usrds.org/ ) - latest data:
Annual mortality rates per 1000 patient years at risk: hemodialysis patients
'94 - 22.68%
'95 - 23.11%
'96 - 23.12%
'97 - 23.02%
'98 - 23.33%
'99 - 24.11%
'00 - 23.63%
'01 - 23.96%
'02 - 23.89%
'03 - 23.78%
But I'm sure this data is still too old for you too and something whizbang has happened that has made things just wonderful and we will see the results soon. I'm sure it was also true in '94: yes that terrible old data is out-of-date and our new whizbang cure will fix everything and things will be great! Do you see a cycle here?
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: Re: money hungry corporate types
[quote:7483200b17="Anonymous"]
We're not talking merely rude...I never said that. I am referring to incessant verbal abuse which has not ceased after the disciplinary chain has been followed.
[/quote:7483200b17]
I'll tell you what I'm reading here, a complaint might go as far as the renal network , they then bounce the complaint back to you (which I understand is about all they do), you then get to be judge and jury - is that correct?
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: an apology
I'm sorry if I came off a little grumpy this morning - I'm a bear before I get my first cup of coffee. If anybody feels offended - I apologize.
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Guest
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:40 am Post subject: Re: money hungry corporate types
[quote:42bf3e65a0="plugger"][quote:42bf3e65a0="Anonymous"]
We're not talking merely rude...I never said that. I am referring to incessant verbal abuse which has not ceased after the disciplinary chain has been followed.
[/quote:42bf3e65a0]
I'll tell you what I'm reading here, a complaint might go as far as the renal network , they then bounce the complaint back to you (which I understand is about all they do), you then get to be judge and jury - is that correct?[/quote:42bf3e65a0]
Yes, that is correct. These are the people who have to actually deal with these folks on a day to day basis.
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: What was I worried about?
I must say you are vastly underpaid! Not only are you expected to take on the duties of a medical provider, but also the duties I?ve already mentioned ? it seems totally unfair. But I?m sure you are well-trained for it all and would never let your emotions about a patient cloud your judgment ? unless they really lipped off. However, although we can trust your sense of fair play and justice, could we always trust the sensibilities of all your compatriots, who I?m sure are also so well-trained in these matters ? in addition to having their top-notch medical training.
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NephroNurse
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: Hi!
Just wanted to give my $0.02 on thew topic of discharged pts. I've worked in chronic HD units for 5 yrs, and seen 1 dismissal and probably 5 or more attempts. The actual dismissal occurred when a patient told a staff member to shut the -bleep- up before he knocked her -bleep-ing teeth out. This was after she told him he needed to stand up again for a BP b/c the first reading was inaccurate.
The pts nephrologist, also the MD of the unit, was in earshot and immediately dismissed pt. The pt had documented hx of verbal abuse and had previously met with the nurse mgr and MD about his threatening behavior.
I've also seen a pt who was verbally abusive and threatening to staff, documented over many years. He was intelligent and knowledgeable about his condition, but also condescending and manipulative. He often tried to turn staff against each other, and pts against staff(lying about one to another, calling us at home and calling pts at home by looking #s up in phone book, etc). His actions often created a stressful work environment and upset staff and other pts. He was diagnosed with a personality disorder, which I think is the reason he was allowed to stay.
I've seen a few 'initiations of dismissal', in which contracts were drawn, meetings occurred, and successful resolutions were the results. These are the success stories obviously. It seems like a pt who is observed to be 'acting out' is usually just a person with some unmet needs or unresolved issues. Sometimes, things just need to be verbalized, and agreements about behaviors and practices (by staff and pt) need to be specified.
Someone told me a long time ago that, as the employees who chose these job positions, we carry the burden of having to maintain professionalism: And that for patients, common courtesy is optional. My experience is that most people on dialysis, just like most people i encounter anywhere else, are respectful and generally kind. And every once in a while, some one isn't.
The degree of disrespect shown to a staff member, or patient, or a unit's policies is what determines if you can be terminated from a unit. It also determines the quality and integrity of the person in question.(This statement refers to patients AND staff)
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Guest
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject:
hey
just a question or two.
what is the dialysis center rules for dismissing of a staff who would not follow rules?
What about centers that don't follow the rules?
:?: