DialysisEthics2_Forum
Other => Historical Posts => Topic started by: admin on September 28, 2009, 06:18:19 PM
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 258
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:13 am Post subject: I love this site!
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This is why I love this site. We do get some fiesty folk here. Those people who if they are going out, are going to do so with a defiant salute (of their choice) and a raspberry on their lips.<
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>Thieves, if you can handle the 3X a week, more power to you. But don't deny it to others. I've seen enough to believe frequent and slow nocturnal are both better than the current 3X. Patients should have these choices, this bill will help give those choices.
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thieves
Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:01 am Post subject: choice's
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You home folks may have YOUR choice to dialyze 7x per week. But in my situation 3x a week has suited me fine for years, and putting up with their @#%$ for 7 days a week is 4x too many. Do not clump us all together where we all have to go to the clinic more than 3x per week so the clinics can make more money by running us a few minutes a day!
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brenda
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 103
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:32 am Post subject: Seems to me that if
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this passes you would have the option to receive more dialsysis per week and that it would not be mandatory. So the choice would be up to the individuals. Plugger if I promise to be good can I come hear your 30 seconds, I promise I will dress for the occasion .
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ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:26 am Post subject: more dialysis
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here i go again. three times a week is fine as they have proved in FRANCE the most important is the total time. 18 to 24 hours seems to be the least and remain in good health over a period of years again in FRANCE. when dialysid was first started in the US there was given adaquate treatment with a death of less than 10 percent. so it the tires are as good as you say they are give me a written warrenty. any thing i but usually has a written warrenty. so come on if you are being honest with me humor me give me my warrenty. sorry for the spelling as i am hunt an peck,
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ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:51 am Post subject: more dialysis
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i payed into social for over 45 years, a lot of patients could not but the money you are asking for is ours. in FACT YOU ARE ASKING FOR A 40 PERCENT RAISE. if you are being honest with us you will want to assure us we are getting our money worth. i know that a lot of the clinics and doctors thinking they will do the right thing. so just give me assurance. give me STANDARDS then we both will be happy and it will make us patients a lot more secure. fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.
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ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:04 am Post subject: more dialysis
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we patients have paid for dialysis through social security so the money is ours. some have paid more but that is not important. being it is OUR money we should have a say as to how it is spent. you are asking for a 40 percent raise. WITH STANDARDS WE ARE ONLY ASK FOR ASSURANCE THAT WE GET OUR MONEY WORTH. if you have nothing to hide you will be glar to assure us of the qualityof your service. so come on give us standards along with the raise an make us a lot more secure. FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME.
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FOOL ME ONCE
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:16 pm Post subject: SHAME ON YOU FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME
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Good slogan, ridgerunner. I'm with you. Put those standards on the table, Industry! However, I'm with you, too, thieves. Give me EFFICIENT dialysis 3x a week for all of us who don't buy that longer dialysis is better dialysis, and for the many of us who don't have in-home caregivers and don't want our time taken up with extra hours of dialysis, our access arms chewed up and in more discomfort than they already are. There are many of us who can not get away from in-center, yet we are fed up with the disrespectful, abusive unprofessional treatment. Three days a week of this intolerable behavior is bad enough. Industry, provide us educated staff - not in-denial ding a lings because you work them to death and don't require they treat us with dignity. We demand professionalism and ethics before you ask for a raise!!! This is just one more scheme to stack the beans. Long does not = better dialysis! Efficient = better dialysis!!!!! Nevertheless, this is America, so give us CHOICE of modality and CHOICE of machine. I can choose the car I want to buy to drive my body where it needs to go, but can't choose the machine and solutions my body will be dialyzed with..a machine that performs efficient dialysis for my body..instead of the company manufactured machine = more $$$ in their pockets???? Let's look at the real issues here. The machine is 95% the success of the tx..SKILLED staff in partnership with the patient is the balance!!!!!!!!
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Marty
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 160
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:33 am Post subject: No one is Fooling Anyone
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I don't know who you are fool me once but don't for 1 minute try to tell me there is not a difference between more dialysis and 3x a week unless you have some documentation put out by "professionals" in the field to substanitate your claim. And Ridgerunner I am appalled to think you of all people would try and turn this into a fight about standards of care vs more treatments. Both issues are very important and to plot the issues "against each other" because money is being asked for to cover additional treatments is nothing more than sabatoge for any progress that could be made for the behalf of dialysis patients. I think it is very short sighted to think that the only benefit that will come from this is more treatments. It will also open up the door of opportunity for more companies to make home dialysis easier but making easier, smaller, less time consuming machines. It will promote the growth of technology into ways of better water purification. Without the vision of home dialysis and more treatments being available to all patients no one will have the inspiration to continue the route of improvement. It will give patients unable to have transplants a quality of life they will other wise miss.<
>It will improve the health of those on transplants lists to be better prepared for the transplant. More patients with better health and more energy are more voices to be heard regarding standards of care.<
>It is a way to get individualized treatment. Patients will be able to get dialysis based on their needs. Those who feel good on 3x a week can remain there. Those who feel better getting more will have the opportunity. I haven't heard of anyone on daily or nocturnal told they didn't have a choice of rather or not to go back in-center 3x a week. <
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>If this bill doesn't pass what do you gain? Standards of care aren't going to improve because it doesn't pass. 3x a week treatment won't improve because it doesn't pass. If anything things will further degrade because it's another battle FOR the dialysis patients LOST and of all people it's dialysis patients such as yourselves that helped to make it happen. <
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>I also think it's a little unfair for those such as you Ridgerunner who already have the extra treatment to try and gain non support for this bill because of the money for extra treatments. Many more patients will get the opportunity you and my father now have if this
passes. You had to move to get it, I had to travel a good distance and live away from home for weeks to train. Do you really want these scenarios to apply to all dialysis patients and keep them from enjoying what you and I now take for granted.<
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>You have come on this board numerous times and told patients to go for home dialysis. You have suggested they partner together to do treatments if no helper was available. Now your saying well don't ask a bill to pass to pay for more treatments which will encourage home programs; but stay in-center and take the abuse and lousy treatments until the standards of care are improved. <
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Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:15 am Post subject: HR 1004
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Well said Marty. You can take heart that the objections of ridgerunner and Fool are not at all a consideration of those in the legislature. The debate taking place is between those that think we should wait for the NIH study and those that believe we can proceed without the study. I think there is a good chance HR 1004 will pass this year.
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 258
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:21 pm Post subject: Brenda, I'll have a restraining order when you show-joking!
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Ridgerunner, I think you have helped a lot of patients but I can't help but believe you are wrong on this one. I don't think you'll get a warranty. But I think there is a guarantee of the same old, same old if this bill doesn't pass. I did ask why some incentive for hours couldn't be included, from what I understand it would complicate the legislation too much.<
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>For those who have their doubts about frequent dialysis, maybe a few articles and studies would help. You can go to the following website and search on daily or frequent dialysis:<
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>www.ikidney.com/iKidney/home.htm
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Beyond
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:28 am Post subject: A Doubt
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This is a very eyeopening lesson for how our legislators can get the wrong information from the dilaysis medical community and from the patients, themselves, with which to base their voting decision. No wonder wrong laws go into effect and cause greater harm! <
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>I am not arguing that long dialysis is not beneficial. But the bigger question is WHY aren't clinics providing EFFICIENT 3X a week dialysis and doing so with the highest standards of professionalism? WHY do people need longer dialysis? Because they are not getting EFFICIENT, professional dialysis in the first place! <
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>Yes, the ones who have escaped the unit and are getting longer dialysis feel better. But lets look at this picture. WHY is it that patients have had to escape the unit to feel better??? WHY is it that units don't seem to know how to do EFFICIENT shorter dialysis and deliver it in a professional manner??? WHY does the literature growingly point to long dialysis? <
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>The medical community has been wrong before and they are wrong again! Whose interests are being served here? What is wrong with this picture? How many dialysis units can you go into for a treatment and get quality care? How many patients can say they just jump for joy to go to their dialysis treatments, because their units are so clean and professional and they get the highest standard of care? <
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>It sounds like this legislation has the cart before the horse! The greed of the medical community never ceases. Its like a runaway Saddam. How long did Saddam run roughshod over peoples lives? What are we learning now about how he operated? What does it say when our government has conducted Federal Hearings, exposed the corruption in the Dialysis Industry, yet has done nothing about it while dialysis patients die everyday? <
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>So you think we should give this Industy more concessions?! The day this Industry gets more $$$ without the establishment of standards is the day we all lose again. I take you back to the Federal Hearings. What a clear picture of greed on the part of the Dialysis Industry. Never an apaology for all he deaths. Just give us more and we'll fix it. And its never changed - the squeal of The Pig for more reimbursement goes on and on in the company newlsetters and net boards while all the while patient care in the greatest country in the world ranks last among the civilized nations. And the worst part is.. the propaganda of fabulous care never ceases. STANDARDS, EFFICIENT TXS, CHOICE OF MODALITY AND MACHINE.
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