DialysisEthics2_Forum
Other => Historical Posts => Topic started by: admin on October 02, 2009, 07:43:11 PM
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eyes and ears
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 24
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:45 am Post subject: Reimbursements
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I have talked to many patients and they have no idea what the issues are pro and con regarding reimbursements. There are leaders in various patient groups with ties to Industry who promote reimbursements, and the patients simply believe that they know what they are talking about without truly investigating their claims. It's sad to say, but even most patients of the type who do study their tx somewhat are not careful to look into the matter, and they just trust their leaders. So, they are wrongly influenced to write letters to their Congressmen. The message that is circulated is that more reimbursements will help everyone. With a pervasive message like this and few dialysis patients taking responsibility to really examine the issues, the dialysis program continues to head in a detrimental direction and companies like DaVita have a very captive audience.
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sauce for the gander
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Eyes and ears
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I agree that a well informed patient should be able to argue both sides of the issue. Since you are such a well informed patient why don't you outline both the Pro and Con arguments for an inflation adjustment to the composite reimbursement rate.
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eyes and ears
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 24
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:07 pm Post subject: Reimbursement
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I am not an economist, but one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the Dialysis Industry is full of corruption. I am thoroughly convinced that the issue is not "more" reimbursements, but "accountability" for present remimbursements! If the govt. was doing it's job, it would immediately put serious sanctions on the units that are in violation of skimming off the profits, operational procedures and patients rights!!! More reimbursements is not the issue - there should be ACCOUNTABILITY before there is ever the mention of more reimbursements. How about an apology for all the injuries and deaths? The issue of more reimbursements is a total insult to every dialysis patient!!!!!
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OMG
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: eyes and ears
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You are piece of work... first you post about how uninformed the majority of patients are...you write that most patients are lemmings, unknowledgeable about both sides of the inflation adjustment issue...and then what do you say is the rightous reason for opposing an annual inflation adjustment to the composite rate?...Wait for it...."that the Dialysis Industry is full of corruption" that's it. No pro or con just a simplistic, unsupported, insipid comment...unbelivable...maybe the reason other patients don't want to discuss the issue with you is that you have no idea what the issues are...the info is out there, it is mind boggling that you would take a position that is against your own best interest and not even have an intelectually honest or thoughtout reason.
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eyes and ears
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 24
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:27 pm Post subject: My reasoning is clear to me-
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It's very simple. Accountability comes before increased reimbursements.. in that order. <
><
>I will not reply to your posts if you resort to abusive digs. If you can't dialogue fairly without becoming arrogant the conversation is over. This is not a contest. It's about getting to the facts.
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Yoiur right
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:47 am Post subject: This industry needs to be accountable
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Until this industry is held accountable, money isnt going to change anything. As it is the industry only has to preform at a minimum level, and more money isnt going to help the patients. <
>The government needs to ensure that patients have the right to speak freely and not afraid of retaliation. Patients should be educated and inform consent would be refreshing. This industry needs to operate at a normal level and not get away with anything less. Home hemo programs should be put in, as this is a choice. <
>
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leadsag
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 263
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:53 am Post subject: Re: This industry needs to be accountable
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If the composite rate is increased I doubt much of that increase would benefit the patients. I doubt that they would hire better trained staff(RN, LPN). I doubt they would use better quality supplies. I doubt that they would use the funds to educate the patients. I expect in would be returned to the share holders as a dividend, pay increases for directors of units and the physicians. That is just my opinion.<
>
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Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:57 am Post subject: Composite Rate Adjustment
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As a member of the Carpenters Union let me just say that my union (and I think every other union) would never call an inflation adjustment an increase. It is well established that inflation eats away at the purchasing power of the every dollar. Unless there is an inflation adjustment every year you get a pay cut. I think that if you are against the inflation adjustment then you are really saying reimbursement should be cut.<
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>I have lobbied my DC Representatives on this issue because I do not think reimbursement should be cut every year.
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Stockholders
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:29 am Post subject: Let the....
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Let the Stockholders take a decrease in their profits so that more $$$ can go to patient care. Sorry but the companies need to be accountable for the $$$ they are given for patient care. Stockholders can go elsewhere for their profits. <
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>The companies do NOT need an inflation adjustment. They need to be held accoutable for the waste and "profit" they make and give to the stockholders.<
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>As far as I am concerned, the healthcare industry should not be on the stockmarket. Their focus should be on giving the best patient care out there and for each and every individual. Profits should not be anywhere near this field.<
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>Patients who lobby for more $$$ are doing just what the companies want. Lets get accountability first, then look at possible increases if that is really needed.
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Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Let the....
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Talk about your schadenfreude. I take public positions that are in my best interest and as an Northwest Kidney Centers (NKC) Trustee, I take public positions that are in the best interest of NKC patients. Lobbying against cuts in the dialysis composite rate is a very easy decision. What anyone outside of NKC thinks of my decision doesn?t ever enter into my decision making. <
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>The posts on DEo that are against making a yearly inflation adjustment to the composite rate always refer to it as an increase, it is not an increase. An inflation
adjustment is never an increase. So if you are against it at least talk about why a cut is a good idea. That is the question ?Why is a cut in your best interest?? <
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>I have no idea why you should care about anyone else besides the patients ? forget the DONs, the stockholders ? tell me why cutting the reimbursement rate is in the best interest of the average CKD consumer? Edited by: Bill Peckham at: 11/21/03 1:24 pm<
>
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ETHICS
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:43 am Post subject: ETHICS, ETHICS, ETHICS!
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It's in the patients' best interests to have the ETHICS problem addressed first. More $$$ will not solve the problem. Only rewards the greedy and criminally minded and produces more corruption. And what you perceive to be best for your group of patients is not best for patients nationally who don't have the level of care and respect you say you have.
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Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:12 am Post subject: Re: ETHICS, ETHICS, ETHICS!
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How will less money help to address an ethics problem? I can see how less money will make matters worse. I know that if it wasn't for the strong support of our community NKC could not afford to provide the care that it does. I'm very concerned about "patients nationally" since for-profit providers do not have community support to make up the reimbursement short falls. And I am very sure that you are not speaking for "for patients nationally" when you support cutting reimbursement. <
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>I'm all for addressing ethics but why do you have to cut reimbursement to address ethics? The cut is real, inflation is real, addressing ethics is pie in the sky. In order to address a problem on the Federal Level you need to have a specific solution in mind - Bill XX, or change the wording of the Conditions of Coverage by adding ".... - how long do we have to wait for ethics to return to every dialysis unit in the country? Meanwhile day after day inflation eats into the resources available to support dialysis consumers. <
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>I think your position holds dialysis consumers hostage to the issue of ethics, or lack of ethics. An issue that will not be solved to your satisfaction any time soon. If you want to change our economic system, if you want to create an ethical and moral utopia -great - but leave the dialysis consumers out of it. We have enough to deal with without being martyrs in your fight against capitalism.<
> Edited by: Bill Peckham at: 11/21/03 2:31 pm<
>
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It Never Stops
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:39 am Post subject: Reimbursement raise
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You can slice it dice it call it anything you want to but it is still a increase. How can you be soooo sure that this increase will trickle down to patient care???<
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>Just because you maybe in a wonderful unit does not mean everyone else is.<
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>If the industry receives this increase, when will it ever be too much??? I'll answer this question for you, NEVER.
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mworker
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 12:27 pm Post subject: Hostages?
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It is great that you are concerned about yourselves only. COncerned should be about what is good for the masses and not just for a few. As a trustee, your needs are for his company first, same as the corporations. Dialysis exists for the benefit of the patients,it does not exist for the economic welfare of the owners. <
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>You will never the industry enough money,but there should be benefitting the patients and not to throw more money in a non productive manner. Accurate data and accountabilty should happen first. Turning your head to the other patients problems and worry about yourselves is why this industry is the way it is.<
> <
>Accountability on how the money is spent is another issue. Lets clean up the trash and then maybe it will be about patient care. Until they forced to clean up then I say dont any more money. The money is already been spent and the patients are still below minimum. I say that all are equally important.<
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>We are against throwing more money on the street until there are accurate records and making your clinic financially secure. I feel this is great, but this is not our agenda.<
>More accountability and clean it up before anymore money is spent.<
>
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Common sense
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:25 pm Post subject: inflation
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If you pay an electric bill you know about inflation. If you pay medical premiums you know about inflation. If your pay check is the same this year as it was last year you got a pay cut. Cutting support is not what is best for a single patient let alone the masses.
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