ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 10:38 am Post subject: machines
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i have dialyzed on several different machines and i did not see a great difference between them. the primary difference is wheather you do slow dialysis or speed dialysis with high pump speeds and high volumne removal. also is the total times per week and the times per week. speeds and high volumne removal KILLS. period.
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advocate
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 20
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 10:47 am Post subject: ALL MACHINES ARE NOT THE SAME
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ridgernunner,<
>You said --you dialyzed on several different machines and did not see a great difference. YOU DID NOT DIALYZE ON A BRAUN!!!! Because then you would of experienced a big difference!!!!!!!!! Your conclusions are erroneous.
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leadsag
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 263
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 11:30 am Post subject: Braun
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Hey - maybe the Braun sales rep would like to contribute to the board!!!
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Pollyanna
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 11:47 am Post subject: Sales Rep?
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Hey leadsag, the sales rep already has! He's the one pushing the Braun!!!!!!!
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Tailor
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 12:32 pm Post subject: Att: JP / Advocate / B. Braun Salesperson
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You missed the point of my message, which I shall reiterate now: competent staff makes a difference not the machine. Look, I understand you want to make a commision, but the fact remains that one person's experience hardly qualifies as scientific data.<
><
>Again, I am glad you found something that works for you, but that does not mean it will work for anyone else.<
>And as a side note, this is probably not the best place to advertise for your company, perhaps somewhere like Renalweb would be more appropriate.<
><
>
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advocate
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 20
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 7:30 pm Post subject: Read my lips---not- a- Braun- Rep-
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I'm an advocate for better dialysis. no way am I asking you to purchase machines to prove me wrong since you think, or jest, that I'm a sales rep. Simply locate a few educated dialysis patients (important that they be knowledgeable on the tx and in touch with bodily signals), have them travel to the closest unit that uses Braun, and have them tell you what they experience on one, or more, txs. <
><
>My contention is that if Braun delivers a superior tx for one, it will do so for others. Whereas competent staff is also essential, because there are techniques for efficiency a well trained nurse/tech can
ing to the tx (techniques that are not currently being utilized in-center), it remains my contention that ALL MACHINES ARE NOT THE SAME. <
><
>You are saying that you are so sure of your position that there is nothing to test out. I am saying if you are so sure of your position then disprove me by putting some educated patients on a Braun and allow them to tell you what they experience.<
><
>Also, I hope to
ing out with my posts that patients should have CHOICE when it comes to their machine just as they should regarding modalities.
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Patient 3
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Sat May 17, 2003 4:03 am Post subject: Machines
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Machines are only as good as the person running them. All most people do is learn the mute button.<
>High speed kills and not enough dialysis is the other killer. I wonder how many training errors are done? Dont think they have statistics in that.
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Tailor
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Sat May 17, 2003 5:02 am Post subject: Att Advocate/JP
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Advocate,<
>It seems to me that you are trying to sell a superstition as theory based on facts. Your theory is that because you had bad treatments on other machines, and good treatments on the B.Braun, the machine was the difference?<
>We have one patient in my unit, who will only sit in a particular chair while waiting to come into the unit. She believes that if she sits in this chair, her tx will be perfect. Any other chair and there will be problems. Now, she's been doing this for at least ten years, and it works for her. So should I sell every unit copies of this chair, because it works for this one patient? The idea has as much basis in fact as your sales pitch does.<
>
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advocate
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 20
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 9:27 am Post subject: ALL MACHINES ARE NOT ALIKE
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Tailor,<
>Though your response disapoints me, I am glad for this dialogue as it shows so perfectly how doctors and staff belittle patients when they speak of their concerns and choices. <
><
>The analogy you gave, comparing a patient's security with a particular chair with the performance of the machine, is really a poor one. Obviously, chairs do not give dialysis, but machines do. Maybe what that particular patient was trying to say was that when she get's put on a different chair, with a different machine, she get's a rough tx. This is another thing staff do not comprehend - that all machines are not cali
ated the same and do not run the tx well for numerous other reasons. <
><
>A patient who is observant will begin to notice this and want the machine that keeps him safe on dialysis. He won't have a true quality tx with a machine that inadaquately balances conductivity, but at least he will come out safe on a machine that is better cali
ated to his body . <
><
>That is why it's important to have a machine that has balanced conductivity. You said you can match the conductivity of the Braun. Can you get it to<
>.01 over the entire tx? If you can't, the patient is not getting the best tx. He will be fatigued.<
><
>If a patient can buy the car of his choice, how much more should he be able to dialyze on the machine of his choice! <
>It is time companies realize they don't own patients' choice!<
><
><
>
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jfwag
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 140
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:13 am Post subject: I do not know what to do!!!
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I spoke with my mother neph last week to asked him a question on why he did not put the stent first. He told me that my mother was vry sick and getting too much fluid in her lungs, taking too much medicine so, he decided to do the dialysis first. I also asked him what was her kidney's function when he recommended dialysis. He advise me to check with the hospital medical records. (I will) <
><
>As of last week my mother will have dialysis twice a week. The Neph told me that her KT/V is 1.92, he told me that this was high, and he will recommend 2 times per week. I think that the
reason she never felt well after dialisys was becuase she was getting too much, or she was anemic. She will come home always tired, dizy, depressed. I questioned him about iron and to give me the name of a medicine for anemia, he told me that the center put Epogen and Iron in the last week of dialysis. ( I noticed a difference that day.... but I am not sure about it, we are not supposed to visit her except for 5 minutes). <
><
>I am keeping my eye on my mother's test results, I do not understand them very well but I will compare them with the one at the hospital. <
><
>I am very persistant and will try to get my mother off dialysis if is possible, I have heard that PT that have their kidney function at least 24% as my mother did can delay the dialysis up to 4 years and also heard about some Dr's that prescribe medicine to PT to shut their kidneys down. I need to know more about those prescription and I am also concern with the internal political reasons you mentioned. What do you mean????
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Tailor
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:16 am Post subject: Att: Advocate
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Again, you have only read the parts of my posting you wanted to read. My story about the chair in the waiting room was used to illuminate the flaw in your "theory". The main issue is that one person's experience can not be used to build a blanket statement affecting all patients. It is a little like saying everyone should have the same weight removed every treatment, because you feel good with that weight removed. <
><
>And yes I can get other machines to have stable conductivity. I can get a Cobe C3 to do it, as well as Gam
o Phoenix and a Baxter Aurora. What does this prove exactly?<
><
>
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Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Wed May 21, 2003 12:19 am Post subject: Because of/in spite of
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Is that Braun REALLY better, or is it that the person that runs it more knowledgable about the dialysis procedure/pt.s needs than most? What EXACTLY makes the Braun different than any other machine, and I want specifics, not fluff. How is the Braun different than any other machine? Lin.
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leadsag
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 263
Posted: Wed May 21, 2003 12:27 am Post subject: selection of machine
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We have no choice in what machine the unit uses. "Hey quack, this is one of your revenue sources, would you please get a Braun machine for me to dialysis on?"<
>Besides the unit I am at the nearest dialysis unit is an hour away and they are not accepting visitors or new patients at this time so even if they DID have the Braun machine, I could not try it.<
><
