Looking for documentation
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Thu May 08, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject: $100,000 to sign on new patients
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where is it stated that doctors get $100,000 for signing up new patients and that patients are on the stock market?
***************************************************************
Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 12:18 am Post subject: ROFL!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ridiculous!
***************************************************************
Disgusted
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 45
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 3:56 am Post subject: re: documentation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me that you are referring to the amount of money that is estimated per patient when a clinic is sold to a suitable buyer and not just handed over to a nephrologist for signing up a new patient.
***************************************************************
Worker Bee
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 28
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 4:30 am Post subject: Key words
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The key words are "up to" that amount. $100,000 was what the for-profits were willing to pay the nephs in the beginning in order to get them to send their patients to for-profit clinics. The for-profits do not pay that much anymore, as they don't have to. In my area, we heard that RCG paid somewhere in the area of $56,000 per patient to the nephs who signed up with them. They do not get all of this in cash payment; it includes stock in the company and other perks. The stock they receive has strings attached in that they can't sell the stock for 3-5 years. It is in the contracts they sign with the companies. <
> Our Dr.'s were well able to start up their own clinics, and in fact they had started their own peritoneal department, but gladly sold out when RCG came around.<
> RCG, Fresenius, Davita, and others are on the stock market. Their income is from you the patient. It is guaranteed income from the government who pays through Medicare for your treatments and if you have private insurance, that is additional payment. <
> Smaller companies like RCG and Davita do not make dialysis equipment and their only income is from providing dialysis services. Gam
o, Baxter, and Fresenius make dialysis equipment and receive additional income from those sources.<
> Without you the patients, there would be no need for any of this. You the patient are their biggest commodity and source of income. They make their profit from the guaranteed income they receive from the government for providing you with dialysis. You are the "Cash Cows" and instead of providing you with the best care possible, they are determined to squeeze every last penny out of your treatments. Think about it. :"> <
>
***************************************************************
Validation
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 4:41 am Post subject: This is the information to find out
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Nephrologists have the "safe harbor" and able to profit from the patients. <
>Other physicians sell the practices to another physician. This however is different because the physician who sold the practice is not allowed to have any vested interest in it.<
>In Nephrology this group can sell the patients and still be able to profit from the patients, and also the patients are the "cash cows" for the physician to sell to the for-profits. Other doctors cannot send their patients to a lab or any procedure that they have relatives receiving payment off of their patients. In ESRD dialysis, the physicians tell their patients where they can dialize in most cases and these companies own the laboratories in many cases and get "kick backs'" and its legal. <
>As I have stated before feel free to contact Congressman Pete Stark, and get a copy of the fact that ESRD are immune from this law. This leaves the patient with a physician who needs to please the investors and whom does he belong to first.<
>The symbols are the following for the big ones:<
><
>RCI for Renal Care Group, use to be RCGI symbol<
>DVA for DaVita, they use to be TRC, but changed the symbol.<
>FMC is Fresenius<
>Gam
o is owned by Sweden, and they have their own symbol.<
><
>Many of these companies have private investors, and many of the selling hospitals get 10% profit for a few years,from some of the for-profit.<
><
>Our article will be out soon, and if you call the companies and ask if the Nephs are given money, you will find out for yourself. Anyone that is in this industry knows this. <
><
>The journalist is in possession of all documents, and our story is going to be out SOOOOn. As I stated before, I will stand firm on this ground. You can find it sooner, by calling the companies or waiting for the documents to be printed in the news.<
><
>I have given you the trail to find out yourself. Information is there, all you need to do is ask the companies. Simply that. I am on firm ground, and I do believe that you need to research this yourself. It is mind boggling and disturbing, if you find it hard to believe what we are saying and dont want to find out yourself, just saying it isnt so doesnt make the truth different. The article will provide you with a truth, that is beyond belief. It doesnt change the facts. I stand firm on this and it can be proven...Have you asked your doctor if this happens? If they are immune from these laws? One appreciates it when they have it validated. Denial isnt going to do it.So research it for yourself, and ask questions of the physicians etc. It is well known by the majority of workers that are sold with the clinics.<
><
>Arlene<
>
***************************************************************
Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 5:25 am Post subject: Fersenius symbol
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI<
>FRESENIUS MEDICAL CARE CORPORATION's stock symbol is FMS
***************************************************************
Pull up
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 5:26 am Post subject: Arlene Mullin in Yahoo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pull up that article from Williamette Weekly. I am sure that you can email arlene and get the journalists phone number.
***************************************************************
plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 258
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 6:30 am Post subject: trying to remember
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was wondering if you could refresh my memory. Why were nephrologists exempt under the Anti-kickback or Stark law in the first place?
***************************************************************
LuLuW
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 46
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 8:48 am Post subject: Mind Boggling
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is all so mind boggling and very unsettling to read. When I started dialysis and saw all those people in there with me, was encouraged to apply for Medicare even though I already have good insurance, and learned more about the conditions under which we receive treatment (re-use, etc), I knew immediately that someone had to be getting rich off of this. You know, I guess it's just human nature for man to turn something that should be a positive, life-saving service into a big, greedy industry.:"> <
><
>I'm sickened by this. Once this is all exposed to the public, and it definitely needs to be, then what? What suggestions for changes to the industry are on line?
***************************************************************
Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts:
337
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 8:56 am Post subject: FMC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I go to an FMC unit, and yes am aware it's on the stock market, just like lots of other companies that make money from consumers. That's no big secret; that's "the economy" in the USA. As to the doctors being paid, I would like proof on that one! I went to a neph. that was in my ins. plan, and to a unit that is the closest to my home, and one that my ins. plan would pay for. It just so happens it is an FMC unit. The neph. has pts. in the unit, but is not on any board or anything. He gets paid for my visits, and that's it; that is paid for by my ins. co. and my copays for office visits. If doctors are paid any more than that I sure would like to see the proof! Lin.
***************************************************************
LuLuW
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 46
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 11:14 am Post subject: on a lighter note.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the way he dresses, it's hard for me to believe that my neph makes that much. He wears the same frumpy khakis and plaid shirts whenever I see him. I'd expect him to be wearing Armani! <
><
>I trust my neph and though the industry has some obvious corruption going on, I don't believe him to be one of the bad guys. He's a good guy, and he works darn hard. He travels from hospital to hospital, dialysis unit to dialysis unit, and even finds time to see non-dialysis patients to boot. Personally, I don't see where he finds the time. IMO, he earns every penny he makes!
***************************************************************
Stand firm
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 12:15 pm Post subject: For Profits purchasing patients from DRS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can not change the facts. I will stand firm on the following facts. The information is the following.<
><
>When for profit companies or investors come to the Nephrologists and pay for the patients and also leave the physicians stock options,plus money to ensure that the investors make a profit. Then for profits by out other for profits.<
><
>I wont back down that this isnt happening. It is and it needs to change. This is not pleasant, but it is the fact. This is my last statement on this, as the information is there to find out yourselves, or email and I will give you the reporters name. I simply say it is true and in the archives you can pull up the information.<
><
>Arlene
***************************************************************
Worker Bee
Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 28
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 1:07 pm Post subject: Lin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lin,<
> Your Neph has to have some sort of contract with FMS in order to have his patients dialize there. In a hospital it would be called "privileges" to practice medicine at that hospital. Same thing applies to a dialysis unit. Your Insurace company also has a contract with FMS for you to dialize there. If in your area there is more than 1 dialysis company offering dialysis, then why does your Neph have patients at the FMS unit, why not at some other unit? FMS owns your Dr. RX pad when patients dialize there. If another company could offer better dialysis, the same price to your insurance company,better care according to your Dr's wishes and it was in the vacinity of your home, then why are you not there? Ask yourself these questions and do the research. <
>The money is there and it is changing hands, you just have to look in the right place and ask the right questions. They aren't going to come out and tell you!<
>
***************************************************************
Dubiuos
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 2:17 pm Post subject: That seem's like a lot,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will easily believe that center's give the doc's commisions, but $100K seems far too much. There's no way they could hand out that much cash and still keep stock holders happy
***************************************************************
Dude
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 2:42 pm Post subject: Cash
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HEY INDUSTRY,<
>Read those posts again. It didn't say it was all cash all at once. It's Stock in the company and other perks. Do the research for yourself. It's out there. <
>And Yes, it is a lot of . It's GUARENTEED payments from Medicare otherwise known as we the taxpayers! Who better than the U.S. public, courtesy of our politicians, to make that possible! <
><
>
***************************************************************
