Isabel
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 25
Posted: Sun May 11, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject: I do not know what to do....need to hear your opinion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My mother recently began Dialysis; 3 weeks ago, her kidneys were only working at 24%. My mother?s primary care physician decided that my mother?s best route would be dialysis. Even though the kidney doctor was not completely sure about going on with dialysis but he eventually agreed with her pcp. One of her conditions for she was in the hospital was that her lungs kept filling with fluid and her blood pressure was very high. Between the cardiologist and the respitory physician did not agree on the fact of her heart, cardio doc assured us that her heart was in good working conditions but the respitory doc diagnosed my mother with "heart failure". When we spoke with the cardio doc and told him what the resp. doc said he was shocked because he said, ?her heart was very strong?, the only thing that came up on the test that were ran was a clogged artery in her kidneys, he then assured us that once it was opened (procedure called stent) she would be fine. My question is, since the pcp decided to put my Mother on dialysis first, and the stent later. (it was put after dialysis)<
>Did the PCP made the right recommendation? <
>Can my mother get off dialysis with out any further problems? <
>What are the risks? <
>She does not feel well after dialysis, why?<
>
**************************************************************************
aprnjam
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 85
Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 8:58 am Post subject: Re: I do not know what to do....need to hear your opinion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isabel, do you have any more information that you can share about your mother? Was there any swelling in her feet and legs? If so, how much? How short of
eath was she? A person can develop congestive heart failure and the lungs can fill with fluid for a number of reasons, even if the heart is strong. A person can have anemia, or a low thyroid function, or renal insufficiency, renal failure, a heart attack. Without knowing the full facts, having access to all you mother's lab tests and x-rays, it is impossible to determine if the PCP made the correct recommendation. It would be best if you could get your PCP, the cardiologist, the pulmonolgist and the nephrologist all to sit down together at the same time and answer your questions. There are just too many unknowns to give you a good recommendation. (Excuse any typo's spell checker wouldn't load)
***********************************************************************
FRN
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 25
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:55 am Post subject: Isabel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with aprnjam, and I would also suggest that if all your mother's Dr's don't attend a care conference for her, that you get a second opinion. <
> As to getting off dialysis, that depends on the labs, if her so called kidney failure can be resolved with the stint or if there is an underlying problem/ problems. This is something you are going to have to resolve with her Dr's. <
>As for feeling like c--p after dialysis, that is pretty normal. Waste products and fluid are being removed in a short time and they were put in the body over a much longer period of time. The body isn't used to having this done so fast. It can take a few hour or even up to 24 hours after dialysis for a patient's body to "equalize " out and feel normal again. Best thing is to go home, eat something light if you can and then rest or take a nap.
***********************************************************************
advocate
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 20
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 2:27 pm Post subject: who has looked into this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
correction> typical dialysis is like this, but with an improved tx one does not have to feel weak post tx.
***********************************************************************
AZgloria
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 3
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject: feeling better after tx
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I started dialysis in Feb and feel pretty crummy afterwards. What are some of the things a person can do to improve the tx?
***********************************************************************
advocate
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 20
Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 5:35 am Post subject: not all machines are the same
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing you can do to feel better post tx unless you dialyze on a machine that delivers stable conductivity (most big name makes can not achieve this), eat a complete meal while on the machine each tx to improve your nutritional status (more toxins build up in the body if one eats off tx) and have techs who will perform techniques like dialyzer flushes as this improves clearance (won't get this in most in-center units as it takes a few extra minutes). Good dialysis means good energy, pre, during and post tx. Accompanied by regular exercise, it is possible to feel well all the time. The good machine, however, is 95% the answer. Most people don't believe the answer, but I can tell you with all honesty they haven't tried it and are only going on what they've been told or experienced with the usual big name machines. One tx on a machine that offers stable conductivity and the patient will experience the difference. Only a patient can know this first hand. The doctor, nurse, tech or technician can not know as it is not their body that goes through the tx. But if they tested it out by changing the machines to efficient models, patients would be remarkably well.
***********************************************************************
jfwag
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 140
Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 8:48 am Post subject: Repost...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...from Patient Stories<
>My guess...<
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<
> ...is and you must remember that I am not a doctor and you need more medical adivice. 24% kidney function is on that "so-so" line. 15% can be crucial. I am going to say that it might be difficult to take her off now because of internal political reasons but they can be overcome by persistance on your part. By coming to this board you have showed your interest and I am sure someone more qualified than me can give you help. I do know that your mother might not feel well after dialysis but it appears you have only begun to get into ESRD. Correct me if I am wrong. I would continue to question the way this process came about. I have had in the past been through the 15-25% kidney function dilema where one neph said it is time to go on dialysis and another one disagreed. Foundind RN can give more advice. Don't believe all nephs when they say "You need to go on dialysis now!" Good luck
***********************************************************************
AZgloria
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 3
Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 3:09 pm Post subject: conductivity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advocate I'm not familiar with this term or what it has to do with the machines. Could you tell me a bit about it or point me in the direction I could do some research?<
>Thanks, glo
***********************************************************************
Tailor
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 3:45 pm Post subject: Yes do tell,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Advocate do tell where people can find out about your miracle cure?<
>You're very busy posting your sales pitch on a number of forum's...but you can't seem to ever provide any details other than only one machine can provide "stable conductivity".<
>Tell me how much is B Braun paying you in commision for your sales work? I hope
it's worth it, because you sound a lot like the guy selling transplants in the Phillipines on Brumley. A great line, but no information to answer any questions.
***********************************************************************
Isabel
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 25
Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 7:34 am Post subject: What is ESRD??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I would do anything possible to take care off the dialyis machine> Do you know any procedure that can be done to take her off. What else can I do???
***********************************************************************
advocate
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 20
Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 7:50 am Post subject: NOT ALL MACHINES ARE ALIKE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I am doing my best to get the word out, because I want to dispel the myths and propaganda that are rampant in the dialysis community. For example, someone at the top says, "We won't allow the patients to eat or drink on tx", for whatever reasons they make up. Yet entire units in other countries provide wholesome meals for patients and there are no problems. These myths and rumors get passed around so much that staff and patients believe them. It is the nature of most people to accept what they hear if they hear it enough!<
><
>I am challenging the "all machines are the same" myth. There is a simple way to test my claim. I know of only one company that has produced a machine with balanced conductivity which as you rightly said is B. Braun. There may be others, but we don't personally know of any others. We have experienced most of the other top name machines and eliminated them.<
><
>As I have previously stated, the tx is 95% the machine. Read that again---95%!!! So the simple test is try it and see for yourself. <
><
>I know, you can not try it because you're not a patient. What you can do as a technician is get an external meter and measure the conductivity to see how slight a variation there is. Now measure your Fresenius or Cobe or whatever and see what you get.<
><
>Now, find some patients who are in touch with their bodies and have them experience a Braun. After only one tx, they will see a noticeable difference. They will not feel fatigued when they get off the machine. Give them several week's worth of txs and see what they say then. <
><
>When you have tried this simple test, then come back and discredit me if I am wrong. I have absolutely no connection to the B. Braun Company. I have simply discovered that they have a superior machine. <
><
>
***********************************************************************
jfwag
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 140
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 4:58 am Post subject: ESRD...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...means Endstage Renal Disease, if that is what you are asking. 15-25% of kidney function.
***********************************************************************
Tailor
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 7
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 5:19 am Post subject: Advocate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advocate,<
>I am glad you have found a method that works for you, however I am reluctant to try something based solely on the fact that it has worked you and possible one other person. I am reluctant to try something based on no explanations or information.<
>You refer to a stable conductivity, define stable? A drift of 0.1ms/cm? 0.2 ms/cm? Over what time period? At what dialysate flow? If I can reproduce this effect with a machine of my choice, what will that prove? Because, I guarentee that I can match the "stable conductivity" with any a number of machines. <
>Until I get more data, I will stick to what 25 years of experience has taught me, that the equipment is only as good as the people using it and supporting it.<
>Again, I am glad you found something that works well with you, but I will be reluctant to buy B.Braun on that alone.
***********************************************************************
JP
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 4
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 10:16 am Post subject: JP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tailor,<
><
>Advocate tells a stable conductivity means a drift of 0.01-0.02 millisiemens/cm over all the tx time. Dialysate flow of 500-550 cc/mn.<
>Sorry Tailor, if you are considering all the machines work the same, it seems to me you need more than 25 years of experience...just my opinion.<
>Free choice for the patient to get the machine ! Why not ??<
>JP- 15 years of experience with the best machine which provides the best life for a dialysis patient. No EPO, No tireless, no itching... its her real artificial kidney. She doesn't want another machine... <
>
***********************************************************************
