Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 12:45 am Post subject: I'm just saying
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that my neph. sees pts. at more than one unit, each owned by different companies. I have this neph. only because when I started dialysis he was one of two in my ins. plan, and the other group of doctors was not accepting new pts.. He didn't decide which unit I would go to, and in fact if ins. wouldn't pay for me to go to this one I would have to change nephs. so I fail to see how doctors could be paid 100,000 dollars because they can't guarantee a pt. stays anywhere for any amount of time. I'm not saying they don't get perks, but would sure like to see where there is absolute proof, after all to
ing something out in the open and fight it we have to go on something more. I do know (had a friend who works for major pharm. co.) that both sales people and docs. are given many incentives to plug certain drugs; suspect it could work the same way in dialysis perhaps. Businesses are sold all the time, and openly traded, but I have a problem with the same being done with people. Smacks of slavery to me, so would really like to get a hold on this! Lin.
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Jahphia
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 10
Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 3:17 am Post subject: money for referring dialysis patients
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wow.....this whole money thing explains why my new doctor gave me a prescription that would have shut my kidneys down mixed with the other medications i take. explains alot to me!!!!!!!!!!
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Jahphia
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 10
Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 3:25 am Post subject: doctor dressing
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maybe your neph doesnt want you to know how rich he is. anyone can dress down....check what car he drives, or how many homes he owns and what his stock portfolio is worth. he can dress in sloppy clothes and own an island somewhere in the ocean. ask him where he goes for vacation. what vacation do you get? yes doctors work hard. but at whose expense? the patients they serve, the tax payers pay for dialysis. tax payers are helping you stay alive, not the doctors. they get paid to keep you alive as long as you are willing to suffer the enslavement of dialysis, not caring for your quality of life, but improving their own high quality of live for generations to come. think about it.
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LuLuW
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 46
Posted: Mon May 12, 2003 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: doctor dressing
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I would never ask my doctor such questions because, frankly, I feel the amount of money he makes and what he does with it is his business, not mine. Knowing what it takes to complete medical school, internship, not to mention malpractice insurance, building a client base, and a good reputation, my issue really isn't with the doctors/nephrologists. We can all choose what doctor we see. However, when it comes to dialysis, we don't get a choice. Well, okay, we can choose not to receive treatment, which, in essence, is choosing to die. But if we choose to live, we are at the mercy of this huge industry in general. I want quality dialysis treatment, meaning safety first, profit second. If we can accomplish that, I'll be happy.<
><
>Incidentally, my neph doesn't fall into the category of keeping patients alive so they stay on dialysis. He directed me to the pre-transplant process even before I began dialysis. In fact, his plan was for me to complete the pre-transplant process (since I had several potential donors) before ever needing dialysis, and when the time came, I'd go straight to transplant. So, while we want to fight for change, I think we should take care in not demonizing all nephrologists. After all, we do need them! Edited by: LuLuW at: 5/12/03 11:21:58 pm<
>
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Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 11
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 12:35 am Post subject: Judging
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Just because someone has money and a lot of money doesn't mean they are doing anything unethical. <
>I have 3 homes, drive a Lincoln, have a Saturn, Buick, Cadillac, and Blazer. Donate thousands to the non-profit dialysis center each year and haven't done anything unethical to afford this. Worked about 16 hrs a day when I was younger, saved faithfully, invested in the stock market, (NOT IN DIALYSIS COMPANIES) and things turned out well. I have yet to figure out why there is a big interest here in all the Money Bashing instead of just the ISSUES.
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Pollyanna
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 3:59 am Post subject: Money is the issue
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The money is the issue. They should be under the Stark Law and Anti kickback as with anyother physician.<
>The money is not used for patients and what is happening in many units, is the barest of supplies to ensure the maximum profit for the clinics./stockholders. It is going to the physician and stock holders,not to patient care. <
>If the industry recognized patients as patients and not as cash cows there would be no issue.<
>It depends on what chair you sit on. Let them make their money as other physicians do. That is all!<
>No one would care if the governments money went to the patients and they received proper treatment, a safe clean enviroments to dialize in and most of all a well trained educated and informed staff.<
>Who does the physician belong too. The argument of wealth doesnt cut it, when the patients have no rights or quality of life. That is what the argument is.<
>The physicians should only have the patients well being in mind, as other physicians have to honor. What makes the Nephrologist different? They deserve special treatment and no accountability. <
>Let the public decide...simply that. I personally dont think that the pattern of Integrity is convincing.<
><
>
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Jahphia
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 10
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 6:22 am Post subject: rich getting richer off the patients and tax payers
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it is my understanding that in order to get the government to pay for dialysis is if you have no assets over $3000.00....is this correct? if so, isn't it true that many patients lose all of their extra cars, homes and recreational stuff? the doctors get richer and the patients die paupers, leaving their family with a huge debt. and say......the poster with all of that wealth, could you possibly give one of those homes for patients to live in? public housing is not a quality of living.....have you been in there....ever? or how about one of those cars to help with transportaion....maybe some patients would show up more if they had a ride....and become healthier? share the wealth with patients.
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Deborah
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 7:27 am Post subject: My neph
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does not understand how the machine operates, therefor there is so much he can not answer. When I have asked him questions he bluffs them off. My unit may as well be a McDonalds, because even the head person, the doctor, can order my tx without knowing how to operate my machine. <
><
>He can not know what I am experiencing if he does not know how to operate the machine and how it affects me. The people working at a McDonalds know more about their equipment then my doctor knows about the machine. Does that make any sense? <
><
>Well thats the way it is. I have gotten to where I dont ask my doctor a single thing. I can find the answers elsewhere most of the time and get much politer answers. <
><
>Instead of talking about dialysis when
he makes rounds, he talks about his luxurious vacations. I'm serious, he thinks it is appropriate to tell me about his latest vacation when I am hooked up to a dialysis machine in pain and can not afford to take any vacations. <
><
>I'm not dogging him, because he's financially wealthy and I'm not, but I think it's very insensitive. I've had several nephs and they were all like this. It's amazing how someone can accomplish becoming a doctor and then have no concept of what it means to provide service with integrity. <
><
>I would love the opportunity to have a quality doctor. It would be so wonderful to be supported instead of taken for granted.
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To jahphia
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 9:20 am Post subject: So you came back?
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It's been awhile since you last posted on this site. About 2 years? So why did you come back? <
><
>To answer your quesiton:<
> If I remember correctly, back in 1978 a law was passed that ANYONE irregardless of their race, religion ,finances, etc, who was a victim of ESRD is guaranteed the right to dialysis and that Medicare would pay for it. Of course you have to apply for it and your social worker can help you do so. I believe it is Medicare part A that you need. This is usually filled out and submitted within 45 days of your first outpatient dialysis run. <
><
>For varification of this contact your social worker or Medicare and get the rules pertaining to ESRD and check it out for yourself. Then you can see for yourself and become expert on it.
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SHIRTS
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 39
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 9:21 am Post subject: 100 GRAND ?????????
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SOME OF THE POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT ARE JUST SILLY<
>PTS COME AND GO ....THERE IS NEVER A POSITIVE COUNT AT ANY GIVEN TIME<
>I KNOW I WILL BE BLASTED AGAIN BUT FELLOW PTS LETS GET REAL<
>STAY WELL<
>
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Curious 2
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 5
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 9:48 am Post subject: Whats your point
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Denial is great SHIRTS! Just call the phone numbers. It appears that you are either in denial or clearly industry posing as a patient.<
>Try calling and asking questions. But that is if you really dont know the truth,or you do.<
>Its all there and yes, they have paid up to @100 grand. Believe it or not! Just call the numbers and ask. Ask your physician if he can sell you and if he is immune from the laws and allowed the 'safe harbor'<
>I think you know, and I think your just here to deflect the real issues. <
>You dont want to know the truth? Or you already know it?<
>Dialysis is guaranteed for every patient that has paid into the Social Security or is a citizen. You as patients dont realize that you are paying 20 percent of an inflated price.<
>So follow the trail, ask questions of your Nephs it is NO SECRET and is well known. What is on the stock market if it isnt you the patient? What commodity do they have other than the patients? Jusr use your head and think! Read,phone and ask questions. YOu are an ideal sheep!
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Hey
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 9:51 am Post subject: Could you be Renal Webber
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Seems as if the IPs match...! Good try!
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Jahphia
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 10
Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:00 am Post subject: yes....i am back...for now
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i came back because someone from this board kept msn'ing me.....i came to take a look why.....are u happy or unhappy about this? is this a public board for patients, families of patients, doctors, and concerned citizens? please....do you have a name?
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realdialysisethics
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 41
Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:44 am Post subject: Re: yes....i am back...for now
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I hope this stops and we all get back on track. We are all working for changes. All I can say is welcome back and lets all get on track.<
>We should be using this energy in productive ways and get moving with the agenda to make it safe for all patients in the United States.
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leadsag
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 263
Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 4:21 am Post subject: 2 yrs ago
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Leave the person alone. I don't know what they posted 2 years ago but HEY it was 2 years ago. Maybe they have changed the view they have. Until they posted something that you have aproblem with here why not just welcome them and see what they have to offer the group.
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Jahphia
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 10
Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 4:26 pm Post subject: thanks for the welcome back and support
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thanks for remembering me....i had no idea my posts were that memorable. 3 years is a long time to be away....it will take a while to catch up i suppose. i was gone for several reasons, one was to settle my worker compensation claim. i was approached by my doctor with the question of "if they settled with me, would i quit posting?" i said maybe and quit posting after discovering i had been lied to by certain people on this board. then the msn messenger kept trying to open communication with me with a nic involving dialysis. i figured i would check out the site to see if anything has improved in the industry. i see the distractions are still here continually, changing the focus from dialysis issues to personal attacks on character, unfair fighting, drive by posting(love that phrase lulu), petty bickering about caps and emoticons. please forgive me for getting off track.....i will be around. forgive u all? of course! forget...no way......let's get back to dialysis ethics, eh? see ya on the board!!!
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Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 12:04 am Post subject: Almost
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forgot what the original subject was while I was "wading" through all the posts, lol<
>In regards to the Medicare, it is part b that pays for dialysis. You are entitled to part a if under age 65, but will have to pay for part b. If you receive disability you can have the payment automatically deducted from check. It is currently 55+ a month, according to my social worker.<
>I like to know the truth, but don't believe everything I'm told without proof. To know that my neph. gets paid over and above what he earns really irks me; it makes me feel like a slave. Slaves were commodities, being sold to the highest bidder; it's disgusting to say the least. Oh, I'm not nieve and know that our lives are scrutinized by lots of people and companies, for a profit, but 100k? What happens when you change nephs.? My insurance is going to change soon and I may have to change docs and even unit. <
>Japhia, sorry, I don't remember you; welcome back! Lin.
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Armeni
Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:19 pm Post subject: Looking for Docs
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Scroll down to On Flyer downloaded posted on 5/4/03 by Opinions Wanted!
