More questions
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:07 am Post subject: Short efficient
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you also explain how short efficient makes up for crashing and cramping that the rapid fluid removal does to some patients. Can you explain how the toxins don't build up on the 2 days off?<
>You have been coming here preaching this but as yet have not named the wonder machine or given us anyone other than yourself to verify you statements with. I find it extremely difficult to believe that in this whole wide world not 1 nephrologist has seen the results you claim from useing the right machine and treatment and not come forward and said so.... What doesn't YOUR nephrologist speak up if he see's your results?
***********************************************************************
Coil
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 27
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:34 pm Post subject: Machines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I'll play the screaming technologist, which proves I'm not a top tech. Please forgive me if I come across harshly, as I am not attempting to be rude.<
>However, and I shall now start my rant, I take exceptions to a couple of your points. First, there are differences in machines, however they all do the same thing in a generalized manner. I've been in this industry for long enough to qualify as a veteran, and I have worked or evaluated a fairly high percentage of the available machines. I would use as a counter argument, that knowledge is a lot more important than the machine. I would gladly bet that I can take any of the major machines and match the results you get on your mystery machine. That is what makes, in my opinion, a good tech.If you wish to name the machine you refer to, I will be glad to discuss it in particular, however since it is unamed, I am at a bit of a disadvantage.<
>Second point, your statement that because it worked for one patient, it would work for all patients. If that were the case why would we have PD and HD? Why would some people dialyze for five hours and some for three, why would you get sodium ramping and the person beside you wouldn't. The only thing you get with a strict formula is a lot of sick and dying patients that don't match. Again, I apologize if I sound harsh, but you have yet to produce anything other than claims, I see no evidence.<
>Third, your point about choice of machines. Unfortunately, I have yet to see any machine that blows away the competition, hence the fact there is competition. I'm sorry, but all you would get with allowing patients to pick their own
and is a lot more salespeople. And the world does not need more salepeople!!! As well, there a lot of ruthless people peddling dialysis machines, and I refuse to believe that there aren't dialysis patients who would get suckered into buying the Lada of dialysis because they were told they were getting a cadillac. As well, the logistics of it are beyond belief, imagine having to train staff on a dozen different machines, having to stock a dozen different sets of repair parts. That's too expensize for socialize countries, let alone for profit systems.<
><
>Again, I'm sorry for coming across rude, but unfortunately, you sound too much like someone peddling snake oil. Until I see some proof to these claims, I have to maintain my disbelief.<
>
***********************************************************************
Curious
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 39
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 6:08 am Post subject: home hemo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The government rents the machines for you or buys them. Cost the centers nothing.
***********************************************************************
plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 258
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:24 am Post subject: LA Times
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was re-reading that article, it is a great article. The one thing that bothered me though, was that quote from the fella from NIDDK (eggers). Anecdotal? I suspect this kidney "expert" must work on dialysis by day, and is a tobacco scientist by night. I'm sure the evidence against smoking is also anecdotal (I believe that if they just keep plugging along, smoking will prove to be healthy-kills germs in the lungs-not to mention anything else that gets in the way). Of course I can't remember anything too much out of the NIDDK that could be trusted (I'd give that a big MOO-My Own Opinion, but I guess we don't do that anymore)
***********************************************************************
Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:44 am Post subject: Article
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plugger, I received a survey yesterday asking me if I was willing to dialyze more frequently incenter or over night in center. This survey was given to every NKC patient, it will be interesting to see how many are willing to give more frequent dialysis a try. Hopefully a
oad cross section of patients will try more frequent treatments.<
><
>Curious, that isn't quite right. Home dialysis machines are purchased by providers and reimbursed by Medicare one treatment at a time. The reimbursement is the same $300 or so a week whether the patient dialyzes three times a week or six days a week. Patients can dialyze on the Aksys 6 days a week because the per treatment costs are low, the main expense is the initial cost of the machine.
***********************************************************************
ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:51 am Post subject: dialysis machines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the aksys machine was developed on the wrong data. it was based on the idea of urea clearance which has been used to justify the short jiffy lube dialysis. its major faults is reuse an inadaquate steralizing system. it uses hot water which anyone who understands will not kill all the spores vires and bacteria. they have a lemon on their hands but no buyers. so they are trying to do every thing they can to unload it this is my opinion only.
***********************************************************************
Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:46 am Post subject: Aksys
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ridgerunner, the Aksys PHD is not a proposed system, it is out there being used every day. Your assertion that the sterilization process does not work is out of left field. The Aksys has been used thousands of times if what you say is true where is the evidence of contamination? Your statements are not supported by the experience of users. <
><
>It is true that Fresenius and other machine makers would like the Aksys PHD System to go away but they will have to do better than spread baseless rumors. The bottom line is that the Aksys PHD allows daily dialysis, at home, with a high flux dialyzer and ultra pure dialysate - that is what the Aksys PHD is based on; UREA clearance is included at no extra charge.<
>
***********************************************************************
ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 9:37 am Post subject: aksys machine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i came on a little strong but i cannot see using a machine that costs almost 3 times as much and you cannot do slow long dialysis also forces you to reuse the dialyzer but the lines too. shoot me down.
***********************************************************************
This
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 2
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 9:59 am Post subject: sounds
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
like an arguement about fords and chevys <
> <
><
>(sorry, couldn't resist, it is an interesting discussion)
***********************************************************************
/>
Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:23 am Post subject: Aksys
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ridgerunner, at some point you have take new technology off the drawing board and see how it works in the real world. Only time will tell if short daily on the Aksys is a safe and healthy choice for CKD patients. In the end it will be my experience and the experience of other patients all around the world that will form the database to compare treatment modalities. The Aksys is a test in progress and no patient should be forced to take part in a test and to my knowledge all patients using the Aksys are volunteers who are willing to try the Aksys to advance the knowledge of renal replacement therapy.<
><
>Next week I will be talking with the staff at my unit about trying 8-hour treatments on the Aksys. The idea is that I would dialyze every other day for eight hours at night. I have some concerns but I know that there are questions that can only be answered by real world experience, so I am inclined to try it. My first concern is whether I can get enough sleep while dialyzing to work a full day the day after but again I think the only way to find out is to give it a try. <
><
>ridgerunner I know you would agree that every patient on dialysis is different, and should have a treatment that is best for him or her and their particular situation. As the Aksys is used in the real world it will continue to be refined and I believe it will meet the needs of a significant portion of the people who are on dialysis. But we will never know unless someone trys it.<
>
***********************************************************************
ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 10:45 am Post subject: aksys
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i do 8 hours 6 nights a week and i checked the aksys out and i could see srveral faults i saw one ate the charlotte meeting. at the time i was traveling in a motor home. i could see no way i could get it in a motor home. the only way i feel good is to get 8 hours of treatment 6days a week. i have to take no binders and i eat a lot of the wrong foods milk cheese red meat etc. my creatinine was 2.5 last month . urea means nothing and if you have to take binders restrict your diet or your creatinine is above 3 you are not getting enough dialysis. if you are having sleeping problems it can be made worse by poor dialysis. until aksys improves to the point you can have unlimited dialysis no reuse it is not in the running.
***********************************************************************
Marty
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 160
Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:56 am Post subject: Hasty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ridgerunner I think you are being a little to hasty in your remarks here. Bill has
ought up some excellent points one being technology has got to advance. I think the Aksys is working toward solving the problems that prevent home hemo and more treatments. Two things holding back nocturnal and daily programs rather you like it or not is the cost the centers and government think they are going to incur by the extra treatments. So far I haven't heard of the Aksys reuse causing any problems. The 2nd issue is patients not wanting to spend the time taking care of the equipment and setting up for dialysis. The Aksys has addressed this issue. It is also my understanding Aksys was going to adapt the machine to long nocturnal treatments. I don't know much about this machine and I'll admit it but I haven't heard of negative affects on patients. I am pleased to think that a company as Aksys is trying to solve some of the problems that prohibit home dialysis and am thankful for patients like Bill who are in the trials and giving us information based on experience. I admit I am a slow nocturnal fan but I will also admit that any advance in technology which will reduce the time required handling home dialysis chores is of a BIG interest to me. I do believe it is because of the Aksys development that Fresenius, Baxter etc. are now looking at ways to make their machines more user and home friendly.<
>Competition can be a healthy thing.
