SHIRTS
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 39
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:44 am Post subject: ESRD DEATH RATES
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I HAVE SEEM MANY POSTS REGARDING THE USA'S DEATH RATE IN OUR COMMUNITY. SADLY, BUT TRUE MANY OF OUR FELLOW PTS DO DIE. THE CAUSE IS SOMETIMES PUT IN THE AMERICAN SYSTEM OF TXS. BUT I HAVE NOTICED IN 8 YEARS OF ESRD THAT MANY VERY ILL PEOPLE ARE PUT ON TX, SOME OF THESE PTS ARE SICK WITH VARIOUS DISEASES WHICH IN THEMSELVES ARE FATAL.<
>IN THE CLINIC THAT I GET MY TX THERE ARE MANY PTS WHO BARELY ARE ALIVE...SO WHEN THEY DIE (AS EVERYONE DOES)...WILL DIALYSIS BE THE REASON ???<
>WE ALL WANT THE "BEST" TX BUT SOMETIMES THAT ALSO WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH.<
>STAY WELL....
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Bill Peckham
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 10:56 am Post subject: Mortality Rates
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Shirts the US ESRD mortality rate is high compared to other countries - Japan, Northern Europe - even when adjusted for comorbidities. This means even when you compare similar patients, apples to apples, the US has a mortality rate twice Japan and two thirds higher then Northern Europe. <
><
>Many theories have been put forward to explain the discrepancy but there are no easy answers. Shirts it is true, we are all going to die, but the difference between a 10% mortality rate and a 24% mortality rate implies a huge difference in the day to day well being of the average dialysis patient.<
><
>Regardless of how good their individual care may be, until the mortality rate issue is addresses no one should be satisfied with ESRD care in this country .
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Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:48 am Post subject: comparing!
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Agreed that dialysis in the USA MUST improve, but in regards to the comparisons I wonder (other than comparing the obvious) if they compared other things.<
>For instance, Japan's population in general fares better in regards to things like obesity. I'm curious as to whether EVERYTHING was compared.<
>I agree wholeheartedly that dialysis needs to improve, but in the USA we as a population also need to take better care of ourselves (myself included of course!) Just my opinion that dialysis can prolong our life, but can't undue any stressors we have placed on ourselves, and I'm not talking about esrd but rather that we need to shape up, slim down, not smoke and drink, excessively, ect.. I've taken care of many pts. over the years who didn't cause a particular health condition, but decreased their quality of life greatly by not taking care of themselves. Yes, we deserve quality of care in regards to dialysis, but along with that we need to learn to take care of ourselves too. I've done pretty good but am on a mission to do even better because I wouldn't give anyone the satisfaction of saying I didn't fare well on dialysis because of something I did; they will definately know that if I don't feel well or look well it is because of inadequate txs.. Lin.
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plugger
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 258
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 4:50 am Post subject: Dr. Kjellstrand speech
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Here is a quote from a speech Dr. Kjellstrand did in 2000.<
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>"Overall, Japanese patients have only one third the risk of dying in a given time period compared to USA patients; however, the Japanese patients who dialyze as short and fast as USA patients, have the same awful death rate as in the USA."
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Lin
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 337
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:20 am Post subject: TY
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There goes the diet theory that we seem to hear so much about! There diet is low in cholesterol ect.. and read that overall they are heart healthier than us Americans. Also that if they move here and adopt our average diet they become unhealthy too (heartwise). It gets confusing! Lin.
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SHIRTS
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 39
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:43 am Post subject: SORRY
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THANKS FOR THE STUDIES AND THE QUOTES.<
>BUT I ONLY BELIEVE WHAT I CAN SEE.<
>EVERY TX DAY SOME POOR PT STARTS TX ...WHO SHOULD HAVE NEVER STARTED TX.<
>NATURE HAS A WAY OF LETTING US KNOW WHEN LIFE WILL END.<
>THE BEST TX IN THE WORLD WILL NEVER HELP SOME PTS AND ANY AMOUNT OF TXS WILL NOT BE MUCH BETTER.<
>STAY WELL.
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ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:55 pm Post subject: death rate
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plugger you have it right. until we have standards of care the jiffy lubers will keep killing people. i have noticed a change in the people who post on the board, they have become to understand as long as the net work and the corps control the treatment nothing will change.
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Marty
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 160
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:33 am Post subject: Seeing is not the truth
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Shirts, I don't think that you can look at someone at all and know if they should have treatment or not. I have seen many cancer patients as well as ESRD patients who I thought had no hope but with treatment and persistance turned around. I have also seen healthy individuals who had heart attacks and
ain turmors who died rather quickly with no outward appearance of even being sick. I could give you a whole list of people I know who were given very grim chances by Drs. who managed to prove them wrong. I also will tell you what Christopher Reeves has mentioned many times on Larry King don't let the drs. tell you what you can expect. My point is you can't always believe what your eyes are telling you and just because you see it doesn't mean others should believe it either.
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SHIRTS
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 39
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:21 am Post subject: OK
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MARTY I USUALLY AGREE WITH MOST OF YOUR POSTS.<
>BUT IN MY TX CLINIC THE PTS OF WHICH I SPEAK ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE A TURN FOR THE BETTER.<
>AND I AGREE NEVER-NEVER LISTEN TO ANY DR....WHEN I WAS IN THE HOSP 4 YEARS AGO MY NEPH SENT IN A PRIEST FOR THE LAST RITES.....<
>MY POST TO BEGIN THIS TOPIC WAS NOT MEANT TO HAVE PTS GIVE UP HOPE....BUT TO REALIZE THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE THAT IS A PART OF LIFE<
>STAY WELL
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ridgerunner
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 101
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:58 pm Post subject: mortality
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shirts 7 years ago the primary health center in the south gave me 6 weeks to 3 months to live only god knows. i did not believe them and most of the problems i have are due to medical mistakes. i let nothing be done with out checking it out. but i still get a mickey every now and then. so to prejudge a patient is the primary sin of the healing arts.
